Saturday, July 07, 2007

How many does St. Vincent's seat?

It may be crowded at St. Vincents during the Triduum next year:

Art. 2. In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or regular, may use the Roman Missal published by Bl. Pope John XXIII in 1962, or the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970, and may do so on any day with the exception of the Easter Triduum. For such celebrations, with either one Missal or the other, the priest has no need for permission from the Apostolic See or from his Ordinary. [emphasis added].

As I feared, this motu proprio restores nothing to us, the laity, nothing, either in principle or in practice. And in practice, it actually takes away from the clerics: they can no longer celebrate the holiest liturgies of the year in the old rite, and those haggard diocesan clerics, ordinarily limited to one Mass on a feria, in practice won't have the ability to say the old Mass as they want to. The reprehensible modernist bishops have one another battle. You can just hear Cardinal Murphy Cormac O'Connor gloating about it, happy to avoid any prayers that would lead infidels, heretics and schismatics to the one true faith.

So all of you in Springfield, Missouri, and other places subject to oppressive modernist regimes, you won't be assisting at an authorized traditional Mass anytime soon.


Spider Man said...

I don't believe it is saying that the FSSP and ICRSS won't be able to use the 62 during the Paschal Triduum, just that Priests, in their private masses, would not be able to do so.

Also, the laity are getting something. Springfield for instance doesn't have to get approval from the bishop. They can go directly to a priest, if he can't/won't, then they bring it up to the bishop, if he can't/won't they turn it over to the "Ecclesia Dei" commision to get a priest there who can. See article 5 and 7.

This thing isn't even a day old, let's not be so hasty to look at it with a negative view.

thetimman said...


The motu proprio does not say that--spider man is correct, above, and as for the triduum issue, you may want to check out rorate caeli,, and the new liturgical movement for extensive discussion.

Curmudgeon said...

They can go to the Ecclesia Dei Commission in Springfield? Yeah right. They've been there many times, haven't they? And the answer has always been that the decision lies with the Bishop. And that's exactly what the motu proprio and the accompanying letter say. I'm not convinced.

Spider-Man said...

From "The New Litgurical Movement"

"Art. 7. If a group of lay faithful, as mentioned in art. 5 รต 1, has not obtained satisfaction to their requests from the pastor [NLM: this clarifies absolutely that the permission of the bishop is not required for use of the 1962 Missale Romanum in a public celebration in the parish. See aforementioned article and paragraph.], they should inform the diocesan bishop. The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei". [NLM: in other words, if there aren't local diocesan clergy available or competent.]

Ecclesia Dei in the past didn't have the right to put a priest in a Bishop's diocese, however with this article, it seems to be that "Ecclesia Dei" will now be able to do so.

Either way Springfield is going to be and interesting look at how this document actually plays out. I can't imagine that there is a priest of the diocese that wants to say it, so it will be interesting to see what the Bishop has to say and what "Ecclesia Dei" does to fullfil the needs of the faithgful.

Anonymous said...

It allows the FSSP, ICKSP and others to operate unfettered within their own apostolates or communities.

It does leave the door open to require those priests to participate in diocesan celebrations, like a Chrism mass.

It allows parish priests to say a TLM (privately without restriction except during the Tirduum) or publicly in a parish up to once a day when requested and without the express permission of the local bishop.

Now, the reality of how this will play out with hostile bishops is probably less generous.

WBJ said...

I live in the Springfield-Cape Girardeau Diocese. I think there are (a few) priests who would be willing to say a TLM. The former priest at my parish who is now retired used to say them on occasion, despite the bishop. I don't know if he was just rebellious or what, but he was old enough to remember how, and was apparently willing to deal with the consequences of it. Perhaps he and other older priests might be willing to teach younger priests.

Our current priest has also said he would be willing to allow an FSSP/ICKSP priest to use our parish to say the TLM. We attend the TLM given in a private chapel once a month by an FSSP priest, so who knows? Pray for us!

Dust I Am said...

I hope Curmudgeon's skepticism is unwarranted. I agree Springfield, MO is a good test case--let's watch it unfold.